Mormonism – Huntley Chat

Mormonism (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) differs from the four largest world religions—Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism—in key theological beliefs, practices, and worldview. Here’s a broad comparison:

1. Concept of God

Mormonism: Believes in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as three distinct beings, forming the “Godhead” rather than a traditional Trinity. God has a glorified physical body.
Christianity (general mainstream belief): Believes in the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one God in three persons.
Islam: Monotheistic; God (Allah) is one, transcendent, and indivisible.
Hinduism: Polytheistic or monotheistic depending on sect; Brahman is the ultimate reality, with many deities as manifestations.
Buddhism: No personal God in most traditions; instead, enlightenment (nirvana) is the ultimate goal.

2. Afterlife & Salvation

Mormonism: Believes in different degrees of heaven (Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms), with exaltation (becoming like God) for the most faithful.
Christianity: Heaven or hell based on faith in Jesus Christ (varies by denomination).
Islam: Paradise (Jannah) or hell (Jahannam) based on deeds and faith in Allah.
Hinduism: Reincarnation (samsara) based on karma, leading eventually to moksha (liberation).
Buddhism: Reincarnation driven by karma; ultimate goal is Nirvana (freedom from suffering).

3. Sacred Texts

Mormonism: The Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.
Christianity: The Bible (Old and New Testaments).
Islam: The Quran, with Hadith (sayings of Muhammad) as a secondary source.
Hinduism: The Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, and other scriptures.
Buddhism: The Tripitaka (Pali Canon) and various Mahayana texts.

4. Role of Jesus

Mormonism: Jesus is the Son of God, Savior, and distinct from God the Father; He atoned for sins and was resurrected.
Christianity: Jesus is God incarnate, the Son of God, and central to salvation.
Islam: Jesus (Isa) is a prophet, not divine, and did not die on the cross.
Hinduism: Jesus is sometimes viewed as a great teacher or avatar but is not central.
Buddhism: Jesus is often seen as an enlightened teacher but is not central to doctrine.

5. Prophets & Founders

Mormonism: Founded by Joseph Smith in the 19th century; considers him a prophet.
Christianity: Founded on Jesus Christ and his apostles.
Islam: Founded by the prophet Muhammad in the 7th century.
Hinduism: No single founder; ancient traditions evolved over time.
Buddhism: Founded by Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) in the 5th–4th century BCE.

6. Worship & Practices

Mormonism: Sunday worship services, temple rituals (e.g., baptisms for the dead, endowment ceremonies), missionary work, and adherence to the Word of Wisdom (health code).
Christianity: Church services, prayer, sacraments (e.g., baptism, communion).
Islam: Five Pillars (faith, prayer, fasting, charity, pilgrimage to Mecca).
Hinduism: Temple worship, rituals, festivals, yoga, and meditation.
Buddhism: Meditation, mindfulness, monastic life (for some), and ethical living.

7. View on the Soul

Mormonism: Humans have eternal spirits that existed before birth and continue after death.
Christianity: Humans have immortal souls, destined for heaven or hell.
Islam: The soul is judged by God after death.
Hinduism: The soul (atman) is reincarnated until achieving liberation.
Buddhism: No permanent soul (anatta); rather, a continuity of consciousness through rebirth.

8. Perspective on Other Religions

Mormonism: Believes it is the restored true church; others have partial truth.
Christianity: Generally claims exclusivity in salvation through Jesus Christ.
Islam: Views itself as the final revelation of God’s truth.
Hinduism: Generally inclusive, accepting multiple paths to enlightenment.
Buddhism: Tolerant, as enlightenment is a personal journey.

Mormonism shares some beliefs with Christianity but diverges significantly on the nature of God, scripture, and the afterlife. Compared to Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, it remains uniquely Christian in its foundation but differs due to its emphasis on modern revelation, temple rituals, and the potential for humans to become divine.

Exaltation in Mormonism (Becoming Like God)

Yes, in Mormon belief, exaltation is the highest state of salvation, where faithful individuals can become like God. This teaching is based on the idea that God is our Heavenly Father and that His ultimate goal is for His children to progress and attain divine attributes. The key points are:

Celestial Kingdom: The highest level of heaven, where the most faithful reside.
Becoming Like God: Those who reach exaltation will live in God’s presence, gain divine attributes, and may even have the ability to create and govern their own spiritual offspring.
Requirement: Faith in Jesus Christ, baptism, temple ordinances, obedience to commandments, and enduring to the end.

This concept is unique to Mormonism and is often summed up by an early LDS teaching: “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.” (Lorenzo Snow, former LDS prophet).

Comparison: The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon

Both are considered scripture in Mormonism, but they serve different roles:

Feature	The Bible	The Book of Mormon
Origin	Ancient Israel & early Christianity	Allegedly translated by Joseph Smith from gold plates in 1830
Language	Originally Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek	Originally “Reformed Egyptian” (claimed, but no linguistic evidence)
Main Message	God’s covenant with Israel, Jesus Christ’s ministry, salvation through Him	Jesus Christ’s visit to the Americas, additional teachings
Use in Mormonism	Considered scripture, but believed to have been corrupted over time	“Another Testament of Jesus Christ,” seen as restoring lost truths
Authorship	Multiple authors over centuries	Claimed to be written by ancient prophets (Nephi, Mormon, Moroni, etc.)

Mormons use both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, but they prioritize the Book of Mormon as containing “the fullness of the gospel.”

Founding of Mormonism

Year: 1830
Founder: Joseph Smith
Location: New York, USA
Key Event: Publication of the Book of Mormon and organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Smith claimed he was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ in 1820, later by an angel named Moroni, who guided him to the gold plates that became the Book of Mormon.

This doctrine of exaltation and additional scriptures is one of the biggest theological differences between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity. Let me know if you want to dive deeper into any of this!

How Exaltation in Mormonism Differs from Other Religions’ Views on the Afterlife and Divinity

The concept of exaltation in Mormonism—where faithful individuals can become like God—is quite different from the afterlife and spiritual progression beliefs in other major religions. Here’s how it compares:

1. Christianity (Mainstream) vs. Mormonism

Mainstream Christianity (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox): Believers go to heaven to be with God but do not become gods themselves. There is a strict divide between Creator (God) and creation (humans). The goal is eternal life with God, not divine status.
Mormonism: Faithful members can attain exaltation, meaning they become like God, gain divine attributes, and potentially create and rule their own spiritual worlds.

🚨 Biggest Difference: Christianity sees humans as forever subordinate to God, while Mormonism teaches that the most faithful can eventually become divine.

2. Islam vs. Mormonism

Islam: God (Allah) is absolutely unique and beyond human comprehension. The idea that humans could become like Allah is considered shirk (the greatest sin, associating others with God). Faithful Muslims enter Paradise (Jannah), but they remain servants of God.
Mormonism: Exaltation means achieving divine status. God was once a man and progressed to Godhood, and humans can do the same.

🚨 Biggest Difference: In Islam, God is eternally supreme and unapproachable in nature, while Mormonism teaches that humans can progress to become like God.

3. Hinduism vs. Mormonism

Hinduism: The ultimate goal is moksha (liberation), where the soul (atman) merges with Brahman, the eternal divine reality. Some Hindu sects believe in spiritual progression where individuals can achieve god-like status, but they do not become a separate creator deity.
Mormonism: Exaltation is more personal; individuals retain their identity and can become divine beings with their own spirit children and worlds.

🚨 Biggest Difference: Hinduism teaches oneness with the divine, while Mormonism teaches individual divine progression.

4. Buddhism vs. Mormonism

Buddhism: The highest goal is Nirvana, a state of enlightenment where the cycle of rebirth ends, and suffering ceases. There is no personal God, and no belief that individuals can become gods.
Mormonism: Exaltation involves becoming a glorified divine being with a perfected, resurrected body.

🚨 Biggest Difference: Buddhism seeks release from existence, while Mormonism promises eternal, exalted existence.

5. Ancient Pagan & Mystical Traditions vs. Mormonism

Some ancient religions (e.g., Greek, Norse, Egyptian) had humans ascending to godhood (e.g., Hercules becoming a god, pharaohs seen as divine).
Gnosticism (an early mystical tradition) believed in spiritual progression to become like divine beings, somewhat similar to exaltation.

🚨 Biggest Difference: Pagan gods were often capricious and independent, while Mormon exaltation is about family-oriented eternal progression.

Final Summary

Religion	Highest Goal	Can Humans Become Gods?
Mormonism	Exaltation (becoming like God)	✅ Yes
Christianity	Heaven with God	❌ No
Islam	Paradise (Jannah)	❌ No
Hinduism	Moksha (unity with Brahman)	⚠️ Some traditions say yes, but as part of the divine, not individual gods
Buddhism	Nirvana (end of suffering)	❌ No
Paganism	Becoming a deity (in some myths)	⚠️ Sometimes, but through mythological means

Mormonism’s Unique Stance

Mormonism stands alone among major religions in explicitly teaching that faithful individuals can achieve godhood and create their own spiritual realms. While some ancient and Eastern traditions hint at divine transformation, only Mormonism combines the personal, family-oriented, and eternal nature of divine progression.

Would you like more detail on any of these comparisons?

What Did Jesus Say to Joseph Smith?

Mormonism teaches that Jesus Christ, along with God the Father, appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 in what is called the First Vision. This is a foundational event in Mormon belief.

The First Vision (1820)

Joseph Smith, a 14-year-old boy, prayed to know which church was true. According to his account, God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him in a pillar of light. Jesus told him:

All existing Christian churches were wrong
Their creeds were corrupt
Their leaders were teaching false doctrines
Joseph should not join any of them because God would restore the true church through him

🔹 Jesus’ Message:
“They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19).

This revelation led to the claim that Christianity had fallen into apostasy and that Joseph was called to restore the true Church of Jesus Christ.

Other Teachings from Jesus to Joseph Smith

Restoration of Priesthood Authority
- Jesus later sent John the Baptist and Peter, James, and John to restore the priesthood power that had been lost.
The Book of Mormon
- In 1823, an angel named Moroni (a resurrected prophet) told Joseph about ancient gold plates, which Joseph later translated into the Book of Mormon.
- Jesus is said to have visited the ancient Americas after His resurrection, teaching the Nephites (a lost Israelite tribe).
Temple Ordinances & Exaltation
- Jesus revealed temple practices (baptism for the dead, eternal marriage, and covenants leading to exaltation).
The Second Coming
- Jesus told Joseph that His return was near and that the true church must be prepared for it.

How This Differs from Mainstream Christianity

Christianity: Jesus’ church never needed “restoring”—it has existed continuously since the apostles.
Mormonism: Jesus said all churches were wrong and needed a restoration through Joseph Smith.

🚨 Biggest Claim: Joseph Smith was chosen as Jesus’ prophet to restore lost truth.
This is why Mormons do not see themselves as just another denomination but as the only true church.

Yes—Mormonism Stems from Joseph Smith’s First Vision at Age 14

The entire foundation of Mormonism (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is built upon Joseph Smith’s claim that he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ in 1820, when he was just 14 years old. This event is called the First Vision, and it is considered the most important moment in LDS history.

Breakdown of What Happened in 1820 (According to Joseph Smith)

Joseph was confused about which church to join
- At the time, there was religious revival in his area (New York). Different Christian churches (Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians) claimed to be the true church.
- Joseph read James 1:5 in the Bible:
  “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”
- He decided to pray and ask God directly which church was right.
A pillar of light appeared, and God & Jesus appeared
- Joseph later described two separate beings: God the Father and Jesus Christ.
- Jesus told Joseph not to join any church because: “They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me… they teach for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Joseph Smith—History 1:19)
- This meant that all churches at the time were false, and the truth had been lost.
This vision led to the Restoration of the “True Church”
- Over the next 10 years, Joseph claimed he was visited by angels and heavenly messengers who gave him more instructions.
- In 1823, an angel named Moroni appeared and told Joseph about gold plates buried in a hill.
- These plates became The Book of Mormon, which Joseph translated in 1827–1830.
- In 1830, Joseph officially founded The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

So Yes, Mormonism Stems from This Single Vision

Every major LDS teaching—such as the Book of Mormon, modern prophets, temple ordinances, and priesthood authority—all trace back to this First Vision. If Joseph Smith never had that experience, Mormonism would not exist.

🔹 Why It’s a Big Deal:

If the First Vision really happened, then Mormonism is the one true church.
If it didn’t, then Joseph Smith made it up, and Mormonism is false.
Everything in Mormonism depends on whether Joseph really saw God and Jesus at 14 years old.

This is why the First Vision is the most crucial event in LDS belief—because without it, there is no “Restoration,” no “priesthood authority,” and no Book of Mormon.

What Did Joseph Smith’s Parents Think About His First Vision?

Joseph Smith’s parents, Joseph Smith Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith, had mixed reactions to his early religious experiences. However, they were generally supportive of his spiritual quest. Here’s a breakdown of their responses:

1. His Parents’ Religious Background

Joseph Smith Sr. was not religious in the traditional sense. He was a spiritual seeker but did not join any specific church.
Lucy Mack Smith was more religious. She attended the Presbyterian Church and was deeply interested in faith and visions.

This meant that his family was open to religious experiences, which may explain why they did not outright reject Joseph’s claims.

2. What They Thought About His First Vision (1820)?

There is no direct record of what his parents immediately said about the First Vision.
However, his mother (Lucy Mack Smith) later wrote that Joseph had a deep interest in religion and often spoke of spiritual things.
His father (Joseph Smith Sr.) believed in visions and mystical experiences and did not reject Joseph’s claims.

🔹 Important Note: The First Vision story evolved over time and was not widely talked about at first. The earliest detailed written version came in 1832—12 years after the vision supposedly happened.

3. What About His Claims of an Angel & the Gold Plates? (1823-1830)

Joseph’s parents definitely supported him in his later claims about an angel (Moroni) and the Book of Mormon.

Joseph Smith Sr. fully believed Joseph’s mission and later became one of the first leaders in the church.
Lucy Mack Smith later wrote a detailed family history where she expressed strong faith in Joseph’s revelations.

🔹 A Key Event (1827):
When Joseph retrieved the gold plates, a mob tried to steal them. His family defended him, and his mother wrote that they “knew he had a divine calling.”

4. Did Anyone in His Family Doubt Him?

His older brother, Alvin Smith, fully believed in Joseph but died in 1823 before the church was founded.
William Smith (his younger brother) later had doubts but remained loyal for much of his life.
His wife, Emma Smith, later questioned some of his teachings (especially polygamy) but never denied that he had spiritual experiences.

5. What About His Community?

Joseph said that when he told local ministers about his vision, they mocked him and told him his experience was false.
This rejection pushed him further away from traditional churches, leading to his belief that all churches were corrupt.

Final Answer: His Parents Were Mostly Supportive

His father (Joseph Smith Sr.) believed him and was one of his first followers.
His mother (Lucy Mack Smith) was supportive and defended his visions.
His siblings had mixed reactions, but many followed him.
The local ministers rejected him, which strengthened his belief in a “Great Apostasy.”

Deep Dive into Joseph Smith’s Parents, Their Reactions, and Their Fate

Joseph Smith’s parents, Joseph Smith Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith, played crucial roles in his early life and the founding of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Their beliefs, struggles, and eventual fate give insight into the early development of Mormonism.

1. Joseph Smith’s Parents’ Religious Background

Joseph Smith Sr. (The Father)

Born: July 12, 1771, in Massachusetts
Religious Views: Spiritual but skeptical of organized religion
Occupation: Farmer and teacher, but struggled financially
Beliefs:
- Had mystical dreams and believed in personal revelation
- Rejected mainstream Christian churches, thinking they were corrupt
- Was heavily interested in finding true religion

🔹 Significance: His belief in visions and personal revelation likely made it easier for him to accept Joseph’s later claims.

Lucy Mack Smith (The Mother)

Born: July 8, 1775, in New Hampshire
Religious Views: Devout, leaned toward Presbyterianism
Personality: Strong-willed, deeply spiritual, and a storyteller
Beliefs:
- Believed God worked through visions and dreams
- Encouraged her children to seek religious truth
- Joined the Presbyterian Church in 1800s but later followed Joseph

🔹 Significance: Lucy was very supportive of Joseph and defended his mission, even writing a detailed family history about it.

2. What Did They Think About Joseph’s First Vision?

Initial Reaction (1820)

Joseph Smith did not record his First Vision in writing until 1832 (12 years later). Because of this, there are no known direct statements from his parents at the time about the event.

However, Lucy Mack Smith’s later writings suggest she believed that Joseph had always been a spiritual child.
Joseph Smith Sr., being open to visions and dreams, likely found the experience credible.

🔹 Did they believe him?

They did not reject his claims but also did not make a big public statement about the vision.
Joseph’s father encouraged him to follow God’s guidance.

3. What About His Later Claims (The Angel Moroni & Gold Plates, 1823-1830)?

Joseph Smith Sr.’s Reaction

He was one of the first to believe in the story of the gold plates.
When Joseph retrieved the plates in 1827, his father helped protect him from mobs that tried to steal them.
He fully accepted Joseph’s prophetic role.

Lucy Mack Smith’s Reaction

She wrote that Joseph told the family about the angel Moroni’s visit and that they believed him.
She recalled that the family prayed together about Joseph’s mission.

🔹 Did They Doubt Him?

No, they supported him. His parents had always believed in supernatural experiences, so Joseph’s visions fit within their worldview.
Lucy later wrote: “From this time forth, Joseph continued to receive instructions from the Lord.”

4. Did Joseph Smith’s Parents Join His Church?

Yes! Both of them joined the Mormon Church.

Joseph Smith Sr. was one of the first baptized members when the church was formally organized in 1830.
Lucy Mack Smith also joined and became a strong defender of the faith.

🔹 Joseph Smith Sr.

Baptized: April 6, 1830 (the day the LDS Church was founded)
Became the first Patriarch of the Church, giving blessings and guidance.
Moved with the Saints from New York to Ohio and later to Missouri and Illinois.

🔹 Lucy Mack Smith

Baptized in 1830, she became one of the church’s strongest advocates.
She publicly defended Joseph’s prophecies and later wrote History of Joseph Smith by His Mother.
She was one of the most respected women in early Mormonism.

5. What Happened to Joseph Smith’s Parents?

Joseph Smith Sr. (Father)

Died: September 14, 1840, in Nauvoo, Illinois
Cause of Death: Likely tuberculosis (he had been sick for years).
Final Words to Joseph Smith:
- He gave a final priesthood blessing to his children.
- He told Joseph to continue his divine mission.

Lucy Mack Smith (Mother)

Outlived Joseph Smith
Suffered greatly after Joseph and Hyrum (her son) were murdered in 1844.
Did not go to Utah with Brigham Young’s group (she stayed in Nauvoo).
Died in 1856, staying faithful to Joseph’s vision and church.

🔹 Her Final Years:

She spent her last years telling people about Joseph’s visions and the early church.
Even after Brigham Young led the Mormons west, she stayed in Nauvoo and supported the faith.

6. What About Joseph Smith’s Siblings?

Joseph Smith had ten siblings, and their reactions to his prophetic claims varied.

Sibling	Reaction to Joseph’s Visions	Fate
Alvin Smith (oldest brother)	Believed in Joseph’s mission but died in 1823 before the church was founded.	Died young.
Hyrum Smith	Strong supporter; became 2nd in command in the church.	Murdered with Joseph in 1844.
Samuel Smith	One of the first Mormon missionaries.	Died shortly after Joseph (likely from illness).
William Smith	Believed Joseph but later left Brigham Young’s church.	Became a critic of LDS leadership.
Don Carlos Smith	Supported Joseph, but died in 1841.	Died young.

🔹 Key Takeaways:

Most of his family joined the church and followed him.
Hyrum Smith was Joseph’s closest ally and was killed alongside him.
William Smith later had conflicts with the LDS leadership but still claimed Joseph was a prophet.

Final Summary

Did Joseph’s parents believe his First Vision?
- They were open to it and did not reject it.
Did they support his later claims about angels and the Book of Mormon?
- Yes, fully.
Did they join the LDS Church?
- Yes, both Joseph Smith Sr. and Lucy Mack Smith were baptized in 1830.
What happened to them?
- Joseph Smith Sr. died in 1840.
- Lucy Mack Smith lived until 1856, defending Joseph’s teachings.

🔹 Bottom Line:
Joseph Smith’s parents believed in him, joined his church, and followed him until death. They were some of his strongest supporters in the early years of Mormonism.

Which is Older: Hinduism or Buddhism?

Hinduism is older than Buddhism.

Hinduism is one of the world’s oldest religions, dating back to at least 1500 BCE, with roots in the Vedic period (~2000–1500 BCE).
Buddhism was founded much later, in the 5th–4th century BCE, by Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha).

🔹 Key Difference:

Hinduism evolved gradually from ancient religious traditions in India.
Buddhism was founded by a single person (Buddha) and developed as a response to Hindu teachings.

Who Was Buddha? (Siddhartha Gautama)

Born: ~563 BCE (or possibly later), in Lumbini (modern-day Nepal)
Died: ~483 BCE (or later), in Kushinagar, India
Title: “Buddha” means “The Enlightened One.”
Original Status: Born as a prince into the Shakya royal family.
Father: King Suddhodana
Mother: Queen Maya (died shortly after his birth)

Buddha’s Life Story

1. Early Life as a Prince

Siddhartha grew up in luxury in his father’s palace.
His father kept him sheltered from suffering, so he never saw sickness, aging, or death.

2. The Four Passing Sights (His Awakening)

One day, Siddhartha left the palace and saw four things that changed his life:

An old man → Realized aging is inevitable.
A sick person → Saw that sickness causes suffering.
A dead body → Understood that death comes to all.
A wandering ascetic (holy man) → Saw that a spiritual path could lead to peace.

🔹 Key Realization: Life is full of suffering, and material wealth does not bring true happiness.

3. Renouncing His Throne

At age 29, he left his wife and newborn son to search for truth.
He lived as a wandering monk, practicing extreme self-denial (starving himself, meditating for long hours).
After nearly dying from starvation, he realized that extreme asceticism was not the way.

4. Enlightenment Under the Bodhi Tree

He meditated under a Bodhi tree in Bodh Gaya, India.
After 49 days of deep meditation, he achieved enlightenment (nirvana).
He realized the Four Noble Truths (the foundation of Buddhism).

5. Teaching & Spreading Buddhism

Spent 45 years traveling and teaching in India.
His followers called him “The Buddha.”
Founded the Sangha (Buddhist monastic community).
Died at age ~80, reaching Parinirvana (final liberation from rebirth).

Key Teachings of Buddha

1. The Four Noble Truths

Life is suffering (dukkha).
Desire causes suffering.
Ending desire ends suffering.
The Eightfold Path leads to enlightenment.

2. The Eightfold Path (How to End Suffering)

A guide to living a moral and mindful life:

Right View
Right Intention
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration

3. Reincarnation & Nirvana

Like Hinduism, Buddhism believes in reincarnation (rebirth).
But Buddha rejected the idea of a permanent soul (atman).
The goal is nirvana (freedom from suffering and rebirth).

How Buddhism Differs from Hinduism

Feature	Hinduism	Buddhism
Age	Oldest (~2000 BCE)	Newer (~5th century BCE)
Founder	No single founder	Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha)
Sacred Texts	Vedas, Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita	Tripitaka, Sutras
God(s)	Many gods (polytheistic)	No personal god
Soul	Eternal soul (atman)	No permanent soul (anatta)
Reincarnation	Karma-based rebirth	Karma-based rebirth but with no soul
Final Goal	Moksha (union with Brahman)	Nirvana (freedom from rebirth)

🔹 Key Difference:

Hinduism sees the soul merging with God (Brahman).
Buddhism teaches that self and desire must be eliminated to end suffering.

Conclusion

Hinduism is much older than Buddhism (by about 1,500 years).
Buddha was originally a Hindu prince but rejected parts of Hinduism.
Buddhism does not have gods, while Hinduism has many.
Buddha’s teachings focus on ending suffering through self-discipline and wisdom.

Where Did Joseph Smith Find the Gold Plates?

Joseph Smith claimed that on September 22, 1823, he was visited by an angel named Moroni, who told him about gold plates buried in a hill near his home. Over the next four years, Joseph was instructed by Moroni until he was finally allowed to retrieve the plates in 1827. These plates became The Book of Mormon, which Joseph said he translated by divine means.

1. The Location: Hill Cumorah

Where? Near Palmyra, New York, in Wayne County.
Description: A small hill about 110 feet high, located in western New York State.
Significance: According to Mormon belief, this was the place where an ancient prophet-warrior named Moroni buried the plates around 421 AD.
How Joseph Found It: Moroni allegedly appeared to Joseph in his bedroom and told him exactly where to look.

2. The Story of Joseph Retrieving the Plates

A. The First Visit (1823)

Joseph was 17 years old when he said he saw Moroni in a vision at night.
Moroni told him about an ancient record written on gold plates, buried in a stone box.
The next morning, Joseph went to the Hill Cumorah and saw the plates, but he was not allowed to take them.
Moroni told him to come back once a year for four years to receive further instructions.

B. The Final Retrieval (1827)

On September 22, 1827, after four years of visits, Moroni finally let Joseph take the plates.
He claimed the plates were buried in a stone box, under a large rock.
Joseph prayed, lifted the rock, and found the plates wrapped in cloth, along with two sacred objects:
1. Urim and Thummim (divine stones used for translation)
2. The Breastplate (worn by ancient prophets)
As soon as Joseph took the plates, he was attacked by unseen forces and had to fight his way home.

🔹 Key Event: After taking the plates, mobs tried to steal them, forcing Joseph to hide them in various places, including under the floorboards of his house and in a wooden chest.

3. What Did the Gold Plates Look Like?

According to eyewitness descriptions (mainly from Joseph’s followers):

Material: Gold-colored metal plates, bound together like a book.
Size: About 6–7 inches wide, 8 inches long, and about 6 inches thick.
Weight: Estimated at 40-60 pounds.
Writing: Engraved with “Reformed Egyptian” characters.
Held Together By: Three rings along one edge.

🔹 Controversy: No one outside of Joseph Smith’s inner circle ever saw the plates directly. Some believers claim to have seen them in visions or spiritual experiences.

4. How Did Joseph Translate the Plates?

Joseph claimed to translate the plates by divine means, using two methods:

Urim and Thummim
- Special stones given to him by Moroni, placed in silver frames (like glasses).
- When looking through them, he could read the ancient script.
Seer Stone in a Hat
- Joseph sometimes placed a small stone in a hat, buried his face in it, and dictated the words he saw.
- He did not always need the physical plates in front of him.

🔹 Result: In about three months (1829), he dictated The Book of Mormon, which was published in 1830.

5. Where Are the Gold Plates Now?

Joseph Smith said that after translating the Book of Mormon, the angel Moroni took the plates back.

Who saw them?
- Three Witnesses (Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, Martin Harris) claimed they saw the plates in a spiritual vision.
- Eight Witnesses claimed they physically handled the plates.
Why were they taken away?
- Mormons believe God did not want the plates to become an object of worship.

🔹 Controversy:

There is no physical evidence of the plates today.
Critics argue that Joseph never had physical plates at all and that it was a spiritual experience or fabrication.

6. Conclusion

Joseph Smith claimed he found the gold plates buried in the Hill Cumorah (New York).
He said an angel (Moroni) led him there and allowed him to take them in 1827.
He translated them into the Book of Mormon using divine tools.
The plates were later taken back by Moroni and are no longer available.

🔹 Final Question: Did Joseph really have gold plates, or was it a spiritual/metaphorical vision?

Unseen Forces Attacking Joseph Smith

When Joseph Smith claimed he retrieved the gold plates from Hill Cumorah in 1827, he described being attacked by unseen forces. These attacks were both spiritual and physical in nature.

1. What Kind of Attacks Did Joseph Report?

Joseph claimed that after retrieving the plates:

He was physically assaulted three times by an invisible force as he carried the plates home.
He described it as a supernatural struggle and said that he had to fight off these attacks using strength and faith.
Some LDS sources suggest that Satan or demonic forces were trying to stop him from bringing forth God’s work.

🔹 Key Detail: Joseph never specifically named the attacker, but many early Mormons believed Satan opposed the translation of the gold plates.

2. Who Was in Joseph Smith’s Inner Circle?

Joseph Smith’s inner circle consisted of early supporters, family members, and followers who believed in his prophetic mission. They were among the first converts and leaders of the LDS Church.

Key Figures in His Inner Circle

Emma Smith (His wife) – She helped him hide the plates and supported his work.
Oliver Cowdery – Main scribe for the Book of Mormon translation.
Martin Harris – Financial supporter; mortgaged his farm to fund the Book of Mormon’s printing.
David Whitmer – Helped Joseph complete the translation; later distanced himself from the church.
Hyrum Smith (His older brother) – Loyal supporter, later martyred with Joseph.
Joseph Smith Sr. (His father) – One of his first believers and first patriarch of the church.
Sidney Rigdon – Early preacher and church leader.

🔹 Why They Mattered: These individuals either helped with the translation, witnessed the gold plates, or played major roles in the early church.

3. Who Were the Eight Witnesses?

The Eight Witnesses were a group of men who signed a formal statement saying that they physically saw and handled the gold plates.

📜 Their Official Testimony (Published in The Book of Mormon, 1830):

“We did handle them with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon…”

List of the Eight Witnesses

Name	Relation to Joseph Smith	Fate & Beliefs Later
Christian Whitmer	Brother of David Whitmer	Stayed faithful, died in 1835
Jacob Whitmer	Brother of David Whitmer	Left the church in 1838
Peter Whitmer Jr.	Brother of David Whitmer	Stayed faithful, died in 1836
John Whitmer	Brother of David Whitmer	Left the church, later doubted Joseph
Hiram Page	Brother-in-law of the Whitmers	Left the church in 1838
Joseph Smith Sr.	Joseph’s father	Stayed faithful, died in 1840
Hyrum Smith	Joseph’s older brother	Martyred with Joseph in 1844
Samuel H. Smith	Joseph’s younger brother	Died shortly after Joseph (1844)

🔹 Key Facts About the Eight Witnesses:

They claimed to have physically touched the plates, unlike the Three Witnesses (who saw them in a vision).
Five out of eight later left the LDS Church but never denied their testimony.

4. The Three Witnesses (Who Saw the Plates in a Vision)

Besides the Eight Witnesses, Three Witnesses said they saw the plates in a supernatural vision with an angel present.

🔹 The Three Witnesses:

Oliver Cowdery
Martin Harris
David Whitmer

Unlike the Eight Witnesses (who saw the plates in person), the Three Witnesses had a spiritual, angelic encounter.

5. Where Are the Gold Plates Now?

After Joseph finished translating the Book of Mormon, he claimed the angel Moroni took the plates back to heaven.
No physical evidence of the plates exists today.

🔹 Believers Say: The plates were sacred and God removed them.
🔹 Critics Say: Joseph never had plates to begin with.

Final Summary

Joseph claimed to be attacked by unseen forces (possibly Satan) while retrieving the plates.
His inner circle included family, early converts, and church leaders who helped translate the plates.
Eight Witnesses said they physically handled the plates.
Three Witnesses said they saw the plates in a vision.
No one knows where the plates are today—Joseph said the angel took them back.

Why Did David Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, and John Whitmer Dissent from Joseph Smith?

David, Jacob, and John Whitmer were key early followers of Joseph Smith and played major roles in the founding of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). However, over time, they lost faith in Joseph’s leadership and eventually left the church.

Their reasons for dissenting were not the same—each had different personal, political, and doctrinal issues with Joseph Smith. Let’s break it all down in great detail.

1. Why Did David Whitmer Leave the LDS Church?

David Whitmer was one of The Three Witnesses who claimed to have seen the gold plates and an angel in a vision. Despite this, he later left the church and never returned.

Reasons for Dissent

A. Power Struggles & Church Leadership Disputes

David Whitmer originally supported Joseph but grew critical of his leadership style.
In 1838, Joseph Smith introduced new revelations that centralized power around him.
David disagreed with Joseph’s authoritarian control over the church and how he claimed revelations to justify changes in leadership.
He believed Joseph was mixing personal power with divine authority.

B. The Kirtland Banking Scandal (1837)

Joseph Smith and the church established a bank in Kirtland, Ohio (Kirtland Safety Society), which collapsed in 1837.
Many early Mormons lost money, including David Whitmer.
David saw this as a failure of divine prophecy and started questioning Joseph’s revelations.

C. Polygamy & Secret Doctrines

David was strongly against polygamy.
In the late 1830s, Joseph Smith and other church leaders began privately teaching plural marriage.
David rejected this doctrine and saw it as proof that Joseph had lost his way.

D. The Missouri Crisis (1838)

In Missouri, tensions between Mormons and non-Mormons escalated into violence.
Joseph Smith’s leadership led to military-style movements within the church, including the Danites (a secret Mormon militia).
David opposed the Danites and saw the church’s growing militarization as dangerous.

🔹 Final Straw:

In 1838, Joseph accused David of being a traitor and excommunicated him.
David left the church but never denied his testimony of seeing the gold plates.
He later wrote: “I did see the angel and the plates. But Joseph Smith became a fallen prophet.”

2. Why Did Jacob Whitmer Dissent?

Jacob Whitmer was one of The Eight Witnesses, meaning he claimed to have physically handled the gold plates. However, he left the church in 1838.

Reasons for Dissent

A. Loyalty to His Brother, David Whitmer

Jacob’s main reason for leaving was family loyalty.
When Joseph excommunicated David Whitmer, Jacob took David’s side.

B. Opposition to Church Leadership Changes

Joseph Smith reorganized the church leadership in 1838, removing David Whitmer and other Whitmer family members from power.
Jacob believed Joseph was abusing his prophetic authority and forcing out those who disagreed.

C. Fear of Violence in Missouri

By 1838, Missouri became extremely dangerous for Mormons.
Joseph’s involvement with the Danites (a Mormon militia) scared many members, including Jacob.
He did not believe the church should be involved in armed conflict.

🔹 Final Straw:

After David was removed from church leadership, Jacob quietly left the LDS movement.
Unlike David, he never spoke publicly against Joseph Smith.
He remained in Missouri and never rejoined Mormonism.

3. Why Did John Whitmer Dissent?

John Whitmer was one of the Eight Witnesses and an early historian of the LDS Church. He was excommunicated in 1838.

Reasons for Dissent

A. Conflict with Joseph Over Church History

John was the official church historian, meaning he recorded early church events.
Joseph Smith demanded he give up his records.
John refused, believing Joseph wanted to manipulate the history of the church.

B. Financial Corruption Accusations

John was accused of financial misconduct in the church.
In Missouri (1838), church leaders claimed John was using church funds for personal gain.
John denied this, saying he was falsely accused for political reasons.

C. Disagreements Over Church Direction

Like David and Jacob, John opposed Joseph Smith’s increasing control over the church.
He disliked Joseph’s authoritarian rule and the violent direction the church was taking.

🔹 Final Straw:

John was excommunicated in 1838 during the Missouri crisis.
He took his historical records with him, which later became an important non-Mormon source on early LDS history.

4. What Happened to Them After They Left?

Name	Did He Deny the Gold Plates?	Later Life
David Whitmer	❌ No, he insisted he saw the angel & plates	Formed his own church, died in 1888
Jacob Whitmer	❌ No, he never spoke against the plates	Lived quietly in Missouri, died in 1856
John Whitmer	❌ No, but distanced himself from Joseph	Became a wealthy landowner, died in 1878

🔹 Key Fact: None of them denied seeing the gold plates. However, they rejected Joseph Smith as a prophet and believed he had gone astray.

5. Final Summary

Why They Doubted Joseph Smith

David Whitmer
- Opposed Joseph’s growing control.
- Lost faith after the Kirtland Bank collapse.
- Rejected polygamy and militarization of the church.
Jacob Whitmer
- Left out of family loyalty to David.
- Feared church violence in Missouri.
John Whitmer
- Conflicted with Joseph over church history.
- Accused of financial corruption.

🔹 Biggest Takeaway:
Even though they all left the church, they never denied their testimony of seeing the gold plates. They simply believed Joseph had become corrupt and was no longer a true prophet.

Despite early controversies and challenges, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) has experienced significant growth since its founding in 1830. As of December 31, 2023, the church reported a global membership of 17,255,394, with 6,868,793 members residing in the United States. Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2

Polygamy in Early Mormonism

In the 19th century, the LDS Church practiced polygamy, or plural marriage, which became one of its most controversial doctrines. Introduced by founder Joseph Smith, this practice was publicly acknowledged in 1852 under church president Brigham Young. The church faced significant opposition due to polygamy, leading to legal pressures from the U.S. government. In 1890, church president Wilford Woodruff issued the Manifesto, officially discontinuing the practice of polygamy within the LDS Church. Today, the mainstream LDS Church strictly prohibits polygamy, and members found practicing it are excommunicated. However, some fundamentalist groups, unaffiliated with the LDS Church, continue the practice. Wikipedia

The Kirtland Safety Society Bank Failure

In the 1830s, the church established the Kirtland Safety Society in Ohio, a banking institution intended to support the economic needs of its members. Lacking an official bank charter, the society faced significant challenges and ultimately collapsed in 1837, leading to financial losses for many church members. This failure caused disillusionment among some members and contributed to internal dissent within the church. Wikipedia

Migration from New York to Missouri

The LDS Church’s early history involved several relocations:

New York Beginnings (1830): The church was founded in Fayette, New York, where early converts gathered.
Move to Ohio (1831): Facing opposition in New York, Joseph Smith led the members to Kirtland, Ohio, establishing a significant church center and constructing the first temple.
Expansion to Missouri (1831-1838): Believing Jackson County, Missouri, to be the prophesied location of Zion, members began settling there. Conflicts with existing residents over cultural, religious, and political differences led to tensions and eventual expulsion of Mormons from Jackson County in 1833. They relocated to Caldwell and Daviess counties in Missouri, establishing communities like Far West and Adam-ondi-Ahman. Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1 Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

The church’s resilience amid these challenges, combined with strong communal bonds and missionary efforts, contributed to its growth. Despite early controversies, the LDS Church has established a global presence, continuing to attract followers worldwide.

While The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) officially discontinued the practice of polygamy in 1890, several fundamentalist groups unaffiliated with the LDS Church continue to practice plural marriage today. Notable among these are:

1. Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS)

The FLDS is one of the largest Mormon fundamentalist groups that practices polygamy. Founded in the early 20th century, the FLDS upholds plural marriage as a central tenet of their faith. Members believe that having at least three wives is necessary to attain the highest form of salvation. The group has faced significant legal issues, particularly under the leadership of Warren Jeffs, who was convicted in 2011 for sexual crimes involving minors. Despite his imprisonment, Jeffs continues to exert influence over the FLDS community. Wikipedia Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1 Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

2. Apostolic United Brethren (AUB)

The AUB is another prominent group that practices polygamy, often referred to as “The Work” or “Allred Group.” Unlike the FLDS, the AUB operates with less secrecy and seeks to maintain a more positive relationship with surrounding communities. They believe in the principle of plural marriage but do not mandate it for all members. The AUB does not arrange marriages and prohibits unions involving individuals under 18 or close relatives. Wikipedia

3. The Kingston Clan (Davis County Cooperative Society)

Also known as “The Order,” the Kingston Clan is a fundamentalist group based in Utah that practices polygamy. They have been subjects of legal scrutiny due to allegations of incest, fraud, and child abuse. The group maintains a significant business empire, estimated to be worth over a billion dollars. Wikipedia+1axios.com+1

4. Rockland Ranch

Rockland Ranch, also known as “The Rock,” is a fundamentalist Mormon community in Moab, Utah. Founded in 1977, the community was established as a place for fundamentalist Mormons to live and practice plural marriage away from public scrutiny. Homes are built into the rockface to protect residents from extreme weather. As of recent reports, around half of the approximately 35 families in the community practice plural marriage. Wikipedia

Legal and Social Challenges

These fundamentalist groups often face legal challenges due to the illegal status of polygamy in the United States. Law enforcement typically intervenes when there are allegations of abuse, underage marriages, or other criminal activities associated with these practices. For example, in 2022, Samuel Bateman, a leader of an FLDS offshoot, was sentenced to 50 years in prison for orchestrating sexual abuse involving minors. Wikipedia+4axios.com+4apnews.com+4

Despite legal prohibitions, polygamy persists in certain communities, often under the guise of “spiritual” marriages that are not legally registered. This complex issue continues to challenge legal systems and societal norms, particularly in regions like Arizona and Utah, where these groups are predominantly based.

Would Joseph Smith Agree More with Warren Jeffs?

Yes, in terms of polygamy, Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs both believed that plural marriage was a divine commandment. However, there are key differences between their practices and beliefs.

1. Joseph Smith’s View on Polygamy

Joseph Smith introduced polygamy (plural marriage) in the 1830s as a sacred doctrine.

He taught that God commanded it as part of a restoration of ancient biblical practices.
He secretly practiced polygamy, marrying at least 30–40 wives, some as young as 14 years old.
Some of these marriages were polyandrous, meaning the women were already married to other men.
He initially denied practicing polygamy publicly, but evidence shows he was actively involved in plural marriage.

Why Did Joseph Smith Practice Polygamy?

He claimed it was a command from God, revealed in Doctrine & Covenants 132.
He taught that men needed multiple wives to achieve exaltation (godhood).
He linked polygamy to Abrahamic traditions in the Old Testament.

🔹 Key Difference: Joseph Smith started secret polygamy, whereas Warren Jeffs ran an entire community openly practicing polygamy.

2. Warren Jeffs’ View on Polygamy

Warren Jeffs, leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), took polygamy to an extreme.

He believed he was a prophet continuing Joseph Smith’s original doctrine.
He controlled marriages and assigned wives to men.
He forced underage girls into marriages with much older men.
He ruled over a highly isolated community and exercised extreme control over his followers.

🔹 Key Difference:

Joseph Smith initiated polygamy but allowed men to choose their wives.
Warren Jeffs assigned wives, including underage girls, and abused his authority.

3. Key Differences Between Joseph Smith & Warren Jeffs

Aspect	Joseph Smith (LDS Founder)	Warren Jeffs (FLDS Leader)
Time Period	1830s–1844	1998–present (as leader)
Number of Wives	30–40	Over 80
Public vs. Secret Polygamy	Secret at first, later taught openly	Strictly enforced in community
Age of Youngest Wives	Youngest was 14 years old	Married girls as young as 12 years old
Consent of Women	Some wives agreed, some were pressured	Many wives were forced or assigned
Community Control	No isolated compound	FLDS built closed communities
Legal Status	Killed before major legal action	Imprisoned for child abuse (2011)

4. Would Joseph Smith Agree with Warren Jeffs?

Yes, in terms of polygamy as a doctrine:

Both believed that polygamy was commanded by God.
Both thought multiple wives were needed for exaltation.
Both rejected mainstream Christianity’s monogamy teachings.

No, in terms of practice:

Joseph Smith was secretive about polygamy; Warren Jeffs enforced it publicly.
Joseph allowed some agency in choosing wives; Warren Jeffs dictated marriages.
Joseph practiced polyandry (marrying other men’s wives); Warren Jeffs did not.
Joseph never isolated his followers in closed compounds, while Jeffs built secluded FLDS communities.

🔹 Biggest Difference: Warren Jeffs took polygamy further into forced marriages and extreme control, which Joseph Smith did not do in the same way.

5. What Happened to Polygamy in Mormonism?

LDS Church (Mainstream Mormonism)

The LDS Church abandoned polygamy in 1890 due to U.S. government pressure.
Any member practicing polygamy today is excommunicated.
The LDS Church distances itself from Warren Jeffs and the FLDS.

FLDS Church (Warren Jeffs’ Group)

Continued practicing polygamy despite U.S. laws.
Warren Jeffs was arrested and sentenced to life in prison in 2011 for child abuse.
Some FLDS members still practice polygamy in secret.

6. Final Verdict: Would Joseph Smith Side with Warren Jeffs?

Joseph Smith would agree that polygamy was a divine law.
He would not agree with Warren Jeffs’ extreme control, forced marriages, and criminal actions.
While both claimed God commanded polygamy, their leadership styles were very different.

🔹 Conclusion: Joseph Smith set the foundation for polygamy, but Warren Jeffs took it to an extreme, abusive level.

Did Warren Jeffs and Brigham Young Believe in the Same Thing?

Yes, Brigham Young and Warren Jeffs both strongly believed in polygamy as a divine commandment. However, how they practiced it and their leadership styles were different.

Both leaders enforced polygamy as a religious law and taught that it was necessary for exaltation (becoming like God), but there were key differences in how they ruled their followers.

1. Brigham Young’s View on Polygamy

Brigham Young (1801–1877) was Joseph Smith’s successor and the second president of the LDS Church.
He publicly declared polygamy in 1852 and made it an official doctrine of the church.
He married at least 55 women and had 56 children.
He taught that men needed multiple wives to reach the highest level of heaven.
He led the Mormons west to Utah, where they openly practiced polygamy.

Brigham Young’s Strict Polygamy Teachings

He said monogamy was unnatural and led to immorality.
He threatened punishment from God for those who rejected polygamy.
He claimed that polygamy was part of restoring ancient biblical traditions.

🔹 Key Difference from Joseph Smith: Brigham Young did not keep polygamy a secret—he openly promoted it in Utah.

2. Warren Jeffs’ View on Polygamy

Warren Jeffs (born 1955) became leader of the FLDS Church in 2002.
He took Brigham Young’s strict polygamy teachings and enforced them even harder.
He forced marriages, including those involving girls as young as 12.
He claimed to be the one true prophet and had absolute control over his followers.
He assigned wives and broke up families if he believed God commanded it.
He banned books, TV, and outside communication to isolate his followers.

🔹 Key Difference from Brigham Young: Brigham Young allowed men to choose their wives, but Warren Jeffs controlled all marriages and assigned wives.

3. Key Differences Between Brigham Young and Warren Jeffs

Aspect	Brigham Young (LDS Leader)	Warren Jeffs (FLDS Leader)
Time Period	1847–1877 (LDS President)	2002–Present (FLDS Leader)
Number of Wives	~55 wives, 56 children	~80 wives
Polygamy Policy	Publicly taught as doctrine	Enforced it as law
Control Over Marriages	Men chose their wives	Warren Jeffs assigned wives
Underage Marriages?	Some, but not as extreme	Yes, girls as young as 12
Community Control	Allowed outside contact	Isolated followers completely
Legal Consequences	None	Imprisoned for child abuse (2011)

🔹 Biggest Difference: Brigham Young preached polygamy openly but did not control marriages as strictly as Warren Jeffs, who forced underage girls into marriage and abused his power.

4. Did Warren Jeffs Follow Brigham Young’s Teachings?

Yes, but he took them further:

Brigham Young believed polygamy was required for salvation, and so did Warren Jeffs.
Brigham Young said monogamy was unnatural, and Warren Jeffs enforced polygamy with extreme control.
Brigham Young did not force marriages, while Warren Jeffs assigned wives and controlled families.
Brigham Young was a political and religious leader, while Warren Jeffs created an isolated, cult-like dictatorship.

5. What Happened to Their Movements?

LDS Church (Brigham Young’s Church)

In 1890, the LDS Church abandoned polygamy under U.S. government pressure.
Modern Mormons do not practice polygamy, and the LDS Church rejects Warren Jeffs and FLDS practices.

FLDS Church (Warren Jeffs’ Group)

Still practices polygamy in secret, even after Warren Jeffs’ imprisonment.
The group has been weakened but still has followers in Utah, Arizona, Texas, and Canada.

6. Final Verdict: Would Brigham Young Agree with Warren Jeffs?

🔹 Yes, in terms of doctrine:

Both believed polygamy was essential for salvation.
Both taught that monogamy was against God’s plan.

🔹 No, in terms of control and abuse:

Brigham Young allowed men to choose wives; Warren Jeffs assigned them and controlled lives.
Brigham Young built Utah into a thriving society; Warren Jeffs created an isolated, abusive cult.
Brigham Young worked within U.S. law as much as possible; Warren Jeffs was convicted of serious crimes.

🔹 Final Answer: Warren Jeffs twisted Brigham Young’s polygamy teachings into something more extreme and abusive.

WTF is the Prophesied Location of Zion in Mormonism?

In Mormonism, Zion is a central concept, often referring to a holy city, a gathering place for God’s people, or even a state of righteousness. But when it comes to a physical location, Joseph Smith prophesied that Zion would be in Jackson County, Missouri.

1. What Did Joseph Smith Say About Zion?

In 1831, Joseph Smith received a revelation saying that Independence, Missouri, in Jackson County, was the chosen location for Zion.
He called it the “New Jerusalem”, where Jesus Christ would return and rule during the Millennium (1,000-year reign of peace).
The land was to be a gathering place for righteous Saints before Christ’s Second Coming.

📜 Doctrine and Covenants 57:1-3 (Joseph Smith’s Revelation on Zion)

“Behold, this is the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion. … Independence is the center place.”

🔹 Translation: Mormons believed they were supposed to build a literal city of Zion in Missouri in preparation for Jesus’ return.

2. What Happened in Missouri?

A. Early Mormon Migration to Missouri (1831-1833)

After Joseph’s revelation, Mormons moved to Missouri, expecting to establish Zion.
They bought land, built homes, and began preaching that God had given them Missouri.

B. Conflict with Local Missourians

Non-Mormon settlers in Missouri were NOT happy about this influx of Mormons.
Mormons were mostly anti-slavery, which clashed with pro-slavery Missourians.
Mormons also claimed Missouri was their divine land, which made locals nervous.
Fights broke out, and by 1833, Mormon settlers were forced out of Jackson County by armed mobs.

C. Mormon War of 1838

After moving to Far West, Missouri, tensions grew.
Violence escalated between Mormons and Missourians.
The Governor of Missouri, Lilburn Boggs, issued the “Extermination Order”, declaring that Mormons must be driven out or killed.
Mormons fled to Illinois, where they built Nauvoo as their next settlement.

🔹 Result: Zion in Missouri never happened as planned. Mormons were kicked out before they could establish the holy city.

3. What Happened to the Zion Prophecy?

Since Mormons were driven out of Missouri, what happened to the prophecy that Zion would be built there?

A. The LDS Church (Mainstream Mormons)

Today’s LDS Church still believes Missouri is the future location of Zion.
They own land in Jackson County for when “the time is right.”
But they don’t live there now—instead, they built headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah.

B. The FLDS & Fundamentalist Groups

Some Mormon fundamentalists (like Warren Jeffs’ FLDS group) believe Zion should still be built in Missouri and actively prepare for it.
Some live in small communities in Missouri waiting for the Second Coming.

C. Modern Mormons & Zion

Many Mormons today interpret Zion symbolically rather than as a literal city.
Brigham Young later declared Salt Lake City, Utah, as “Zion”, which became the LDS Church’s new gathering place.

4. Will Zion Ever Be Built in Missouri?

LDS Prophecy says YES—but only when the world is ready.
Some Mormons believe Jesus will return to Missouri to establish Zion at His Second Coming.
For now, Missouri is mostly just farmland with no major Mormon presence.

5. Final Takeaway

🔹 Joseph Smith prophesied that Zion (New Jerusalem) would be in Missouri.
🔹 Mormons tried to settle there but were violently kicked out in 1833.
🔹 LDS Church still believes Missouri will be Zion someday, but for now, Utah is their headquarters.
🔹 Fundamentalist Mormons still believe in preparing for Missouri Zion today.

📌 Current Status: Missouri is NOT Zion yet, but Mormons still believe it will be someday.

After Brigham Young, who led The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 1847 until his death in 1877, John Taylor became the next president. Taylor served as church president from 1880 until his death in 1887. Wikipedia

As of January 14, 2018, the current president of the LDS Church is Russell M. Nelson. Born on September 9, 1924, Nelson is a former cardiothoracic surgeon who became the 17th president of the church following the death of his predecessor, Thomas S. Monson, on January 2, 2018. Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2 Wikipedia

Under Nelson’s leadership, the church has continued to expand globally, announcing plans for new temples in various locations. For instance, in October 2024, the church announced the construction of 17 new temples, reflecting its ongoing growth and commitment to providing places of worship for its members worldwide.

Where is Nauvoo, Illinois?

Nauvoo is a small city in Hancock County, Illinois, located in the western part of the state along the Mississippi River.

Geographic Location:

State: Illinois
County: Hancock County
Coordinates: 40.55°N, 91.38°W
Closest Major Cities:
- About 50 miles southwest of Burlington, Iowa
- About 80 miles north of Quincy, Illinois
- About 200 miles north of St. Louis, Missouri

Historical Significance (1839-1846)

Nauvoo was founded by Joseph Smith and early Mormons in 1839.
It became a major settlement for Mormons after they were expelled from Missouri.
Joseph Smith declared it a new center for the church and built the Nauvoo Temple.
By 1844, Nauvoo rivaled Chicago in size, with about 12,000–15,000 residents.
Joseph Smith was murdered in nearby Carthage, Illinois, in 1844.
In 1846, the Mormons were forced to leave due to hostility and persecution.

Present-Day Nauvoo

Population Today: ~1,000 people
Tourist Destination: The LDS Church owns many historical sites, including a reconstructed Nauvoo Temple (rebuilt in 2002).
Still Holds Religious Significance: Both the LDS Church and the FLDS movement consider it an important historical site.

📌 Fun Fact: Nauvoo means “beautiful place” in Hebrew.

How and Why Was Joseph Smith Murdered?

Joseph Smith was murdered on June 27, 1844, in Carthage, Illinois. He was killed by an armed mob while imprisoned in Carthage Jail.

Why Was He Killed?

By 1844, Joseph Smith had many enemies, both inside and outside the Mormon Church. The main reasons for his assassination were:

1. Power Struggles & Political Influence

Joseph Smith declared himself a candidate for U.S. President in 1844, which alarmed non-Mormon politicians.
He was the mayor of Nauvoo and commanded the Nauvoo Legion (a private Mormon militia), making him one of the most powerful men in Illinois.
Locals feared he was trying to create a theocratic kingdom in Nauvoo.

2. Secret Practice of Polygamy

Joseph had secretly introduced polygamy but denied it publicly.
Some high-ranking church members, including William Law, opposed it and felt Joseph had gone too far.
William Law and other dissenters left the church and exposed Joseph’s polygamy in a newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor.

3. Destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor (The Immediate Trigger)

In June 1844, the Nauvoo Expositor published an article exposing Joseph Smith’s secret plural marriages and accusing him of abusing power.
Joseph, as Nauvoo’s mayor, ordered the destruction of the printing press.
This outraged non-Mormons, who saw it as an attack on freedom of the press.

4. Arrest & Imprisonment in Carthage Jail

After destroying the press, Joseph was charged with treason and inciting riots.
He surrendered to authorities in Carthage, Illinois, and was jailed with his brother Hyrum Smith.
He wrote a final letter asking for help from Nauvoo but knew he was in danger.

The Assassination – June 27, 1844

An armed mob of 100-200 men, disguised with black-painted faces, stormed the jail.
Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, John Taylor, and Willard Richards were inside.
Hyrum was shot in the face and killed instantly.
Joseph tried to defend himself with a small pistol but was overwhelmed.
He ran to the window and was shot multiple times.
He fell out of the second-story window, landing on the ground dead.

📌 Famous Last Words: As he fell, Joseph reportedly said:
“O Lord, my God!”
(This phrase is significant in Masonic rituals, which Joseph had been involved in.)

Who Killed Joseph Smith?

The mob was made up of anti-Mormon locals and ex-Mormons who saw him as a religious dictator.
No one was ever convicted for his murder.

🔹 Key Takeaway: Joseph Smith’s increasing power, polygamy, and destruction of the press led to his assassination.

Where Did the Mormons Go After Joseph’s Death?

After Joseph was killed, there was chaos in the LDS Church. The Mormons split into different groups, but most followed Brigham Young.

1. The Exodus to Utah (1846–1847)

Brigham Young took over leadership and decided to leave Illinois.
In 1846, about 16,000 Mormons began the largest organized migration in U.S. history.
They traveled west by wagons and handcarts, suffering from hunger, disease, and attacks.
In 1847, Brigham Young led them to the Salt Lake Valley (modern Utah).
They declared Utah as their new Zion, founding Salt Lake City.

2. Other Mormon Groups

Some Mormons stayed in Illinois and Missouri.
Joseph Smith’s family (including his son, Joseph Smith III) refused to follow Brigham Young and formed the RLDS Church (now Community of Christ).
Smaller Mormon groups settled in Missouri, Iowa, and Canada.

Final Summary

Joseph Smith was killed by a mob in Carthage Jail in 1844 after conflicts over polygamy, power, and freedom of the press.
Brigham Young led most Mormons to Utah, where they settled and built Salt Lake City.
Some Mormons refused to follow Young and created other sects.

📌 Final Takeaway: Joseph Smith’s death marked the end of the Nauvoo period and the beginning of Mormonism in Utah.

Did the Mormons Found Salt Lake City?

Yes! The Mormons, led by Brigham Young, founded Salt Lake City, Utah, on July 24, 1847. It became the center of Mormon settlement and the headquarters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church).

1. Why Did the Mormons Go to Utah?

After Joseph Smith was murdered in 1844, the Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois, faced intense persecution.

Anti-Mormon mobs threatened to kill more church members.
The U.S. government wouldn’t protect them.
Brigham Young, the new Mormon leader, decided to move west to find a safe place where they could practice their religion freely.

Brigham Young chose Utah because it was remote, unsettled (by Americans), and isolated—a place where no one would bother them.

📌 Fun Fact: At the time, Utah was not part of the U.S.—it was still Mexican territory.

2. The Journey to Utah (Mormon Exodus)

In February 1846, about 16,000 Mormons left Nauvoo, traveling in wagons and handcarts across the Great Plains.
They followed what became the Mormon Trail, a 1,300-mile journey across the Midwest and Rocky Mountains.
The journey was brutal—many died from disease, exposure, and starvation.

🔹 Arrival in Utah (July 24, 1847)

Brigham Young and the first Mormon pioneers arrived in the Salt Lake Valley on July 24, 1847.
Brigham Young reportedly said, “This is the right place,” confirming they had found their new Zion.

📌 Fun Fact: Today, July 24 is celebrated in Utah as Pioneer Day, a major state holiday.

3. How Did Mormons Build Salt Lake City?

Once they arrived, Mormons immediately started building a settlement in the Salt Lake Valley.

A. Organized City Layout

Brigham Young designed Salt Lake City using a grid system with wide streets and large city blocks.
The city was built around Temple Square, where they planned to build the Salt Lake Temple (completed in 1893).

B. Irrigation & Farming

The Mormons built an advanced irrigation system to bring water from mountain streams.
They planted crops like wheat, corn, and potatoes to survive.

C. Community Living

Mormons followed strict religious and social order, with Brigham Young acting as both religious and political leader.
Polygamy was openly practiced.
Cooperative economics—Mormons shared resources and worked together to survive.

🔹 Growth:

By 1850, Salt Lake City had over 11,000 people.
By 1860, it became the largest city between St. Louis and San Francisco.

4. Utah Becomes Part of the U.S. (And Mormons Aren’t Happy)

In 1848, Mexico lost the Mexican-American War and ceded Utah to the U.S.
In 1850, the U.S. created the Utah Territory, and Brigham Young was made its first governor.
The Mormons wanted their own independent Mormon country called “Deseret,” but the U.S. refused.

🔹 Conflict With the U.S.:

The U.S. government hated that Mormons practiced polygamy.
In 1857, President James Buchanan sent the U.S. Army to remove Brigham Young as governor in the Utah War.
Tensions between the Mormons and the U.S. continued until polygamy was officially banned in 1890.

5. Modern Salt Lake City

Salt Lake City is still the headquarters of the LDS Church and is known as the “Mormon Capital of the World.”
Today, only about 50% of Salt Lake City’s population is Mormon, but Utah as a whole is still majority LDS.
Temple Square (the center of the city) is one of the most visited religious sites in the U.S.

Final Summary

✔ Yes, Mormons founded Salt Lake City in 1847 after being driven out of Illinois.
✔ Brigham Young led them west to escape persecution and build their own society.
✔ They turned a desert valley into a thriving city through irrigation and planning.
✔ Salt Lake City is still the LDS Church’s headquarters today.

📌 Fun Fact: If Brigham Young hadn’t led the Mormons west, Salt Lake City wouldn’t exist today!

Yes, Joseph Smith III, the eldest surviving son of Joseph Smith, became the first president of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS) in 1860. In 2001, this denomination officially changed its name to the Community of Christ.Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2dialoguejournal.com+2

Current Size and Demographics:

Membership: The Community of Christ reports a worldwide membership of approximately 250,000 members across more than 60 nations. cofchrist.org+1Wikipedia+1
Demographic Trends: Recent analyses indicate that over 75% of the church’s financial supporters are over the age of 65, suggesting potential challenges in sustaining membership and financial support in the coming years. gileriodekel.com

Key Differences from the LDS Church:

Theology:
- Trinity: The Community of Christ embraces a traditional Christian concept of the Trinity, viewing God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit as one entity. In contrast, the LDS Church teaches that the Godhead consists of three distinct beings: God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
- Scriptures: Both denominations use the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants, but there are differences in content and emphasis. The Community of Christ has more sections in its Doctrine and Covenants and has omitted some sections included in the LDS version. christianity.stackexchange.com
Social Issues:
- Ordination of Women: The Community of Christ began ordaining women in 1984, allowing them to serve in all priesthood offices. The LDS Church does not ordain women to the priesthood. deseret.com
- Same-Sex Marriage: In 2013, the Community of Christ approved the sacrament of marriage for same-sex couples in the United States, reflecting their belief in the worth of all persons. The LDS Church opposes same-sex marriage and considers homosexual behavior a sin. deseret.com
Symbols and Practices:
- Use of the Cross: The Community of Christ utilizes the symbol of the cross in its buildings and worship, aligning with mainstream Christian practices. The LDS Church traditionally does not use the cross as a symbol of worship. MRM
- Temple Practices: The LDS Church conducts temple ordinances such as baptisms for the dead and eternal marriages, which are considered essential for salvation. The Community of Christ does not practice these ordinances and views temples primarily as places for worship and peace.

These differences highlight the distinct paths these two denominations have taken since their separation, reflecting varying theological interpretations and cultural adaptations.

How Long Did Joseph Smith III Lead the RLDS Church?

Joseph Smith III led the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (RLDS), now known as the Community of Christ, for 54 years, from 1860 to 1914.

1. When Did He Become Leader?

After Joseph Smith’s assassination in 1844, many expected his son to take over.
However, Joseph Smith III was only 11 years old at the time, so leadership disputes arose.
Brigham Young took most of the Mormons west to Utah and formed what became the LDS Church.
Some followers of Joseph Smith rejected Brigham Young’s leadership and stayed in the Midwest.
In 1860, at age 27, Joseph Smith III officially became the leader of the Reorganized LDS Church (RLDS) at a conference in Amboy, Illinois.

2. How Long Did He Lead?

Joseph Smith III led the RLDS Church from 1860 to 1914—a total of 54 years!
He remains the longest-serving president of any Mormon-related church.
He guided the RLDS movement through a period of stability, rejecting polygamy and Utah Mormonism.

3. When Did He Step Down?

In 1906, he began suffering from health issues, and his son Frederick M. Smith started taking on leadership responsibilities.
In 1914, Joseph Smith III officially retired.
On December 10, 1914, he died at the age of 82 in Independence, Missouri.

📌 Fun Fact: Unlike Brigham Young’s Mormons, the RLDS Church never accepted polygamy and saw Joseph Smith III as the rightful heir to his father’s church.

4. Who Succeeded Him?

His son, Frederick M. Smith, became the next RLDS Church president in 1915.
This marked the beginning of a dynasty where Joseph Smith’s descendants led the RLDS Church for several generations.

Final Summary

✔ Joseph Smith III led the RLDS Church for 54 years (1860–1914).
✔ He rejected polygamy, Brigham Young, and Utah Mormonism.
✔ He retired due to health issues and died in 1914.
✔ His descendants continued leading the RLDS Church for decades.

The church now known as the Community of Christ has undergone several name changes throughout its history:

Church of Christ (1830): Founded by Joseph Smith in 1830, the original name of the movement was the “Church of Christ.” Wikipedia
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (1872): After Joseph Smith’s death in 1844, various factions emerged. In 1860, followers who did not align with Brigham Young reorganized under Joseph Smith III, Joseph Smith’s eldest surviving son. To distinguish themselves from other groups, they incorporated in 1872 as the “Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” (RLDS). Wikipedia
Community of Christ (2001): Reflecting a broader mission and identity, the RLDS Church adopted the name “Community of Christ” in 2001. Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

Therefore, the church has experienced three distinct names since its inception.

As of March 14, 2025, the Community of Christ is led by Stephen M. Veazey, who has served as the church’s Prophet-President since June 3, 2005. Wikipedia+9Wikipedia+9Wikipedia+9

In March 2023, President Veazey announced his intention to retire in 2025. Following a discernment process, Stassi D. Cramm, currently serving as a counselor in the First Presidency, was designated as the Prophet-President designate. Her appointment is scheduled for approval at the 2025 World Conference, after which she will become the first woman to lead the denomination. Wikipedia+10Wikipedia+10Wikipedia+10 bycommonconsent.com+4Wikipedia+4deseret.com+4

The First Presidency currently comprises:sltrib.com+4Wikipedia+4Wikipedia+4

Stephen M. Veazey: President of the Churchyoutube.com+3cofchrist.org+3Wikipedia+3
Stassi D. Cramm: Counselor to the PresidentWikipedia+3cofchrist.org+3Wikipedia+3
K. Scott Murphy: Counselor to the President

Does the Community of Christ Believe in Polygamy?

No, the Community of Christ (formerly RLDS Church) has never accepted polygamy and strongly opposes it.

1. Early Rejection of Polygamy

Unlike Brigham Young’s LDS Church, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (RLDS, now Community of Christ) denied that Joseph Smith ever practiced polygamy.
Joseph Smith III (son of Joseph Smith and first RLDS leader) rejected polygamy and called it a false teaching.
The RLDS Church officially distanced itself from Utah Mormons who practiced plural marriage.

📜 Statement from Joseph Smith III (1869):

“I have never believed that my father, Joseph Smith, ever taught or practiced polygamy.”

🔹 Key Difference from the LDS Church: The LDS Church openly admitted Joseph Smith practiced polygamy, while the RLDS Church denied it for years.

2. Do They Recognize Polygamous Marriages Today?

No, the Community of Christ does not perform or recognize polygamous marriages.
They affirm monogamy as the only acceptable form of marriage.
Polygamists are not allowed to hold leadership positions in the church.

🔹 Current Official Stance: The church views polygamy as inconsistent with Christian principles and has no place in their faith.

3. Why Did They Reject Polygamy When Other Mormon Groups Accepted It?

The RLDS Church stayed in the Midwest and did not follow Brigham Young to Utah, where polygamy became a major doctrine.
They claimed polygamy was introduced by Brigham Young, not Joseph Smith (though historical evidence proves Joseph Smith did practice it).
The RLDS Church wanted to be more accepted in mainstream Christianity, which rejected polygamy.

📌 Fun Fact: In 1980, RLDS historians admitted that Joseph Smith did practice polygamy, but by then, polygamy had been completely rejected in their faith.

4. How Does This Compare to Other Mormon Groups?

Mormon Group	Belief on Polygamy
LDS Church (Utah Mormons)	Used to practice it (1840s–1890), but banned it. Anyone practicing today is excommunicated.
FLDS (Warren Jeffs’ group)	Still practices polygamy as a religious law.
Community of Christ (Formerly RLDS)	Never accepted polygamy and rejects it completely.
Apostolic United Brethren (AUB)	Still practices polygamy quietly in Utah.

5. Final Answer:

🚫 The Community of Christ completely rejects polygamy and has never practiced it.
🔹 Unlike Brigham Young’s LDS Church, they denied Joseph Smith’s involvement in polygamy and opposed it from the beginning.

The Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) is a Mormon fundamentalist group that practices polygamy. Estimates of its membership vary:Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2Wikipedia+2

5,000 to 8,000 members: Primarily located in Utah and Mexico. de.wikipedia.org
5,000 to 10,000 members: With communities in Utah, Montana, Nevada, Arizona, Wyoming, Missouri, and Mexico. Wikipedia+1de.wikipedia.org+1

The AUB is one of the more liberal branches of the Mormon fundamentalist movement, allowing sexual relations apart from the strict purpose of procreation. Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

Other Mormon Fundamentalist Groups:

Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS): Once led by Warren Jeffs, the FLDS is estimated to have around 10,000 members.
Latter Day Church of Christ (Kingston Group): Approximately 3,500 members, primarily in Utah. Wikipedia
Church of Jesus Christ (Original Doctrine) Inc.: Led by Winston Blackmore in Bountiful, British Columbia, with about 700 members. Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

Mainstream Mormon Denominations:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church): The largest denomination, reporting over 17 million members worldwide as of 2023. Wikipedia
Community of Christ (formerly RLDS): Approximately 250,000 members globally. Wikipedia

These figures provide a snapshot of the diverse landscape within the Latter Day Saint movement, highlighting both mainstream denominations and fundamentalist groups.

The Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) is a Mormon fundamentalist group that upholds doctrines and practices from early Mormonism, particularly those abandoned by the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Here’s an in-depth look at their beliefs and practices:

1. Core Beliefs and Doctrines

a. Plural Marriage (Polygamy):

Central Tenet: The AUB considers plural marriage essential for attaining the highest heavenly glory. While not all members practice polygamy, it remains a significant aspect of their faith.Wikipedia

b. United Order:

Economic Communalism: Members are encouraged to participate in the United Order, a system where they consecrate their assets to the community, promoting economic equality and mutual support.

c. Adam–God Doctrine:

Theological Perspective: The AUB accepts the Adam–God doctrine, a teaching by early LDS leader Brigham Young, which posits that Adam is both the spiritual and physical father of humanity.Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

d. Priesthood Restrictions:

Historical Stance: Historically, the AUB excluded Black individuals from priesthood roles, aligning with early LDS Church practices. It’s important to note that the mainstream LDS Church lifted such bans in 1978.Wikipedia

e. 1886 Meeting:

Foundational Event: The AUB’s authority claims stem from an 1886 event where LDS President John Taylor reportedly received a revelation to continue plural marriage, even if the mainstream church ceased the practice.Wikipedia

2. Organizational Structure

Leadership: The AUB is led by a President of the Priesthood, supported by a Priesthood Council.Wikipedia
Auxiliary Organizations: These include the Relief Society (women’s organization), Sunday School, Young Women’s and Young Men’s programs, and the Primary organization for children.Wikipedia+1de.wikipedia.org+1

3. Practices and Community Life

a. Worship Services:

Meetings: Regular gatherings encompass Sacrament Meetings, Sunday School, and Priesthood Meetings on Sundays. Other activities, such as Relief Society, youth programs, and Scouting, occur during the week.Wikipedia+1de.wikipedia.org+1

b. Social Activities:

Community Engagement: The AUB organizes dances, musical events, plays, and classes, fostering a tight-knit community atmosphere.Wikipedia

c. Education:

Schooling: The group operates private schools and supports homeschooling, emphasizing religious and secular education aligned with their beliefs.

d. Polygamy Practices:

Marriage Approach: Given legal restrictions, only the first marriage is state-recognized; subsequent marriages are considered spiritual unions.de.wikipedia.org

4. Relationship with the LDS Church

Perspective: The AUB views the LDS Church as a divinely appointed institution for spreading foundational Mormon teachings but believes it has deviated from original doctrines, especially concerning plural marriage.Wikipedia
Non-Interference: Historically, AUB leaders have emphasized a non-interfering stance towards the LDS Church, focusing on their mission without dictating or opposing mainstream church operations.

a. Child and Spousal Abuse:

Zero Tolerance: The AUB condemns child abuse, spousal abuse, and incest, considering them severe sins. Members found guilty of such acts face excommunication, and victims are encouraged to report offenses to law enforcement.Wikipedia

b. Underage Marriage:

Age Restrictions: The AUB prohibits courtship before the age of 17 and opposes marriages involving individuals under 18, distinguishing them from other groups that may practice underage marriages.Wikipedia+1Wikipedia+1

6. Distinctions from Other Fundamentalist Groups

Moderate Approach: Compared to other Mormon fundamentalist groups, the AUB is considered more moderate, especially regarding marriage practices and community integration.
Public Engagement: The AUB maintains a relatively open relationship with broader society, allowing some members to participate in mainstream activities and institutions.

In summary, the Apostolic United Brethren strives to preserve and practice doctrines from early Mormonism, emphasizing plural marriage, communal economics, and specific theological teachings. While maintaining distinct beliefs, they interact cautiously with mainstream Mormonism and broader society, upholding their interpretations of original Mormon principles.

If you’ve ever thought, “Mormonism is fascinating, but what if it had more wives and less government interference?”—congratulations, you’ve just described the Apostolic United Brethren (AUB). Think of them as the “vintage Mormon collectors club”, preserving the 1800s version of the faith while keeping one eye on modern society (and the other on whether the FBI is watching). They’re like the Amish of Utah, but with WiFi and multiple in-laws. While they take plural marriage seriously, they at least draw the line at underage weddings and sketchy cult vibes (looking at you, Warren Jeffs). So, if you ever meet an AUB member at the store buying groceries for three households, just know—you’re looking at someone truly committed to their family plan.

If the Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) is like vintage Mormonism, then The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) is like Mormonism 2.0—now with fewer wives and better PR! Think of the LDS Church as the Apple iPhone of religions: polished, mainstream, and constantly updating (except in the caffeine department—because let’s be honest, they just barely allowed Coca-Cola without guilt).

Sure, their history has some spicy moments—like Joseph Smith translating ancient scripture with a magic rock in a hat, or Brigham Young playing real-life Oregon Trail and planting a temple in the middle of a desert—but today’s LDS Church is a well-oiled machine. With over 17 million members, missionary squads on bikes worldwide, and the most architecturally stunning temples in every city they touch, they’ve gone from frontier fugitives to one of the richest and most organized churches in the world.

And let’s not forget their superpower: genealogy—because if Mormons had an Olympic event, it would be tracing your ancestors back to Adam. So whether you’re interested in spiritual enlightenment, historical drama, or just confused about why they don’t drink coffee but love Diet Coke, the LDS Church is a religious journey and a fascinating social phenomenon all rolled into one.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) is the largest branch of Mormonism, with over 17 million members worldwide, emphasizing monogamy, missionary work, and a structured religious hierarchy. In contrast, fundamentalist Mormon groups like the Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) and FLDS continue to practice polygamy, believing it to be an essential doctrine restored by Joseph Smith. The Community of Christ (formerly RLDS) rejected polygamy from the start and has evolved into a more mainstream Christian denomination with about 250,000 members. While these groups all trace their roots to Joseph Smith, their theological differences and historical developments have led them down distinct religious paths.